Our community has taught me so much and been a continuing support and inspiration as I continue to experiment. I have had personal contact with many wonderful folks from here. I need your help please with a problem I am having. In September of 2011, I swapped Nigerian goat kids with a gentleman. The agreement we made was that we would each carry through with registering our kids and send the papers as soon as they were done. I swapped a doeling for his buckling, so he got more than a fair trade. I have the doeling's registration papers and have told him so. There are a series of emails between us from January '12 through April '12 showing our communications, including his statement that he had sent the papers in. This was his response after I had mailed a packet to him with all the forms filled out ready for his signature, along with a check covering all the fees, and an envelope addressed and stamped to American Goat Society. In mid June, I called AGS and they checked their mail log and said nothing had been received.
So, finally after three days of trying, I was able to speak with him, on June 25.
Him: Hi
Me: Hi this is Lisette Volkmar
Him: (Long Silence)
Me: I was calling to see what we can do to track down the envelope I sent you.
Him: I didn't send it in. I don't have an AGS membership. Instead I'm blah, blah
Me: There is a check in the envelope that covers all the fees, all you have to do is sign the papers, put them in the addressed and stamped envelope, and send them.
: Oh
Me: I have the papers for the doe you got from me.
Him: so we could trade them....
Me: Yes, that would be wonderful.
As he has not been answering any of my emails, texts, or calls, I don't know what to do next. I have four kids that need to be sold, but that would be better if they were registered. Suggestions please?
Replies
Thank you all for your thoughts! And yes, very obvious in hindsight, I should of gotten the agreement in writing. I hadn't thought I needed that kind of documentation with someone I met on here. Ah well, I'll know better next time.
Lisette
It's a sad reality.
But if he's on here, maybe he'll recognize the problem presented in this thread and realize that anything problem can be resolved through communication, and he'll put out an effort to rectify it.
Call AGS and see what they suggest. I bought a couple of does and the breeder said she'd would mail me all of the paperwork as it was raining that day, and I agreed. Three months later when she would no longer return emails or calls, I contacted the registry myself, explained the situation and they helped by looking up the sire and dam of my goats and calling the breeder directly to verify the breeding along with the dates, tattoo numbers, etc, I paid the fees and the goats were registered. If the breeder registers with NDGA or ADGA call them to see if you can get the goat registered with them then you have the necessary paperwork to register with AGS. I'm assuming you know the pedigree of the buck you purchased? Anyway, I register with AGS too, milk testing is much more affordable :)
Lisette,
I checked with my friend who sold me my Nigerians - she is into horses now but still knowledgable about the goats. As noted you could go a legal route IF you have a written contract. Verbal contracts are much harder to pursue. She suggests you hold up (or contact AGS to) transferring the Doe papers to him until he complies with getting you the papers you need. As an aside, she liked working with NGDA more than AGS for registering.
Lisette,
Do you have a written agreement? Is he unwilling/unable to renew his membership or was he never a member? Is it even possible to register the buck?
This is just what I'd do...
The first thing would be to head over to his place & talk face-to-face, assuming I knew were he lived. I'd go with a friend, as there's strength in numbers & it's good to have a witness & moral support.
The goal would be to finish the deal, and if that's not possible, kill the deal and get remuneration. If the goat can't be registered, the deal was under false pretenses and I'd trade goats back & take the cancelled check, with me keeping the kids for all my trouble.
If the goat can be registered, I'd see if he'd work with me on it while I stood there with him. If any part of it couldn't be completed, I'd get any agreement in writing as to what was to take place and I'd include consequences for non-performance (small claims court, whatever), and a deadline. I'd also trade the goats back and take the uncancelled check until he fulfilled his part of the agreement.
As much as possible, I would not accept promises and I'd take things into my own hands. And whatever I did, I'd get it in writing!
I don't know if this is helpful since it's me and not you, but maybe it will give you some ideas of what you can do. Hopefully a bit of direct prodding will get things moving and resolved! I wish you the best & hope you'll keep us posted.
Disclaimer: I'm only familiar with the American Dairy Goat Association, not with AGS, so I'm going to assume the requirements for registration are similar...
Are you sure that buckling you got from him was registerable? Or was he being dishonest or ignorant? It sounds to me like you've learned a hard lesson...to have all the t's crossed and i's dotted on the day of sale/transfer. Not everyone is reliable, and not everyone is honest so it's best to have paperwork that needs to be signed that day...and if the other party isn't willing to/doesn't have the right paperwork/etc. then the sale/trade/transfer just shouldn't happen.
It sounds to me like you want to get your buckling registered, but can't get him registered because you don't have a signature from the breeder of the buckling. Do you have any of the buckling's paperwork? Did you make copies? Or did you mail it all to him?
I think you might just be stuck with kids and a buckling that cannot be registered because this guy didn't hold up his end of the bargain. I agree with you that it's better to have registered stock, for many reasons...and a biggie is that kids from registered stock fetch a better price. If I were you, I would cut my losses...sell the kids and sell this buck for what you can...and start over with a buck that you can get registered. And next time, don't trust the other party to do the right thing. Have everything ready right there on the day of the transfer so that you don't have to deal with the other party again.