I have a very large area of bermuda (nightmare), grass. I am planning to xeriscape, and turn it over to growing beds, and have been dithering for over a year now on what the best way to do this would be even though I know none are ideal.I had pretty much decided to do the Roundup method with Don's bioremediation on the areas that I plan to use for food, but now that I have the Roundup sitting in the garage I feel rather dispirited by the whole thing.I will be getting chickens in the Fall. Is it worth my waiting until they are grown next summer and letting them peck and forage away at it? Will this get rid of most of it? I am prepared to wait if it means I don't need to use the Roundup. Has anyone else used their chickens with success?I am dithering so much about this whole thing and don't know what to do now.Thank you for any thoughts! :)
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Agggghhh! Please tell me that if you put a solid 6" layer of wood chips (many of which are Eucalyptus) that the bermuda grass won't come through!! I just got a load from a tree trimmer and just finished spreading it in my back yard - now, after reading all your posts it's looking as though I just made a mess of my back yard because the bermuda will pop right through - the tree trimmer said that eucalyptus would kill the grass - my sister said that nothing should come through a thick enough layer of chips ... what say the experts? Should I see if this works and then react? should I add another 4-5 inches, boosting it to a 10 inch base? or should I start taking it all up and try a more brilliant approach?
Hi Anita, and others who so kindly replied to my original post!
No, I have not yet got chickens, and I am afraid, and sad to say that I have decided not to, while we live here at least.
I have been concerned this past summer by how intensely hot it has been, and I fear that where we planned to keep the chickens would not provide enough shade. We don't have a lot of choice in this matter because we only gained permission from one neighbour to be within city ordinance, and therefore could not, (legally), keep them elsewhere in our smallish back yard.
I am not the kind of person who could keep chickens and lose a couple each summer due to the heat, even though I would be prepared to do all I could to keep them cool, including misting, and ice in their water etc, etc. I have also been having boundary issues with the neighbour who gave us permission to have the chickens in that her landscapers have been entering our yard to cut our foliage to ensure that it doesn't grow into their yard. To be honest this issue has me a little overwhelmed and I foresee "chicken issues" in our future as well.
I just don't have the energy for it all right now. In regards to our bermuda grass, it is all dead right now due to lack of water, but is of course ready to grow right back when it gets even a drop of water. It is a project I am still working on slowly, digging it out where I can in small patches, and realizing it is all a slow work in progress.
I'm curious as to whether or not you've gotten your chickens yet. I have lived in my house in Mesa since last November. I found that the best way to get rid of bermuda grass is to start a compost heap on top of the area you would like to turn into a growing bed. I am ready to plant the area where I started composting last November. After a lot of research over the past four years and some half-hearted attempts at gardening on rental properties, I determined we will raise our vegetables in lowered beds. I'm just starting my third compost heap and ready to turn the remaining heap from my second pile into a new lowered bed for planting. The added bonus to the second compost heap has been the introduction of chickens to our garden. We set bricks around our lowered bed to keep out the bermuda grass, and have had very little encroachment within the bed. The bricks are raised above ground level to allow for the trimmer to keep the grass at bay. Ideally, the edging would be wide enough to allow the lawn mower to do all of the work in one pass, but that's a future project. The only thing I planted in that bed last May was oregano, sage and French tarragon. Once established, they have only been watered once every two weeks, with the regular SRP irrigation schedule. The rest of the bed was covered with bamboo mulch over the summer, as I was unable to plant prior to the intense heat. The lowered bed will allow me to cover the garden beds with chicken wire after I sow my seeds, to prevent the chickens and wild birds from eating the seedlings.
I am taking Heather Welch's "designing a vegetable garden" series of classes and we talked about this in our last class- (it's a great class if you haven't taken it already!)We spoke about a few different options for removing Bermuda grass. The option I'm thinking of going for my yard is to plant Red Clover- it will start to naturally choke out the bermuda grass and is easier to remove if you choose to use an area for a garden down the road. As an added bonus, you can make Tea from the flowers :) It's an idea if you don't want to use lots of chemicals. Since clover is a "nitrogen fixer" it's good for the soil as well. I'm learning a lot of really cool stuff in these guild classes :)
I'm going to do the clover in my front yard where I'm going to plant my fruit trees, and in the back where I want to put my garden, I am going to use a sod cutter to remove the top layer, then I am going to lasagna garden from there.
I have been considering planting clover in my back yard to choke out the bermuda and to fix nitrogen. Did you plant it in your yard? Where do you get it and when can you plant it?
I have bought the seeds but have not yet planted it. I was going to plant it in monsoon season but we haven't been having enough rain...so I will most likely plant it in October or November unless we start getting some good monsoons. I bought the seed from seeds of change http://www.seedsofchange.com/ and their customer service was great. I will order from them again and their price of only 7 dollar for one pound was nice as well. I'll keep you updated!
We hand dug out our bermuda, small spots at a time. Just this year we dug out the last patch, and it took about 7 years to do the whole yard. Keep in mind that we did small sections over the years.
Bermuda can lay dormant underground for many years, and can be 2-3 feet down. By watering it and getting it to grow it will come up to the surface making it easier to dig out. Deep water a section, wait a day or so, then start digging! Shake out the dirt from the bermuda roots and bag it immediately. This is by no means the easiest way to get rid of the grass, but it was the route we took. We still have bits that pop up around the yard, it is very resilient, it is grass and that is what it is designed to do-cover bare ground.
We did spray a small section in the front because after digging that section 3 times and still getting grass we were looking for another way. It worked, but there are still some sprouts now and again. Bermuda grows from the roots (rhizome) and seed so it will always be around no matter what you do or use. We find that it likes to hang around the edges of concrete or stones, because the roots can be under the slab protected from spray and pulling.
I would start small, clean out at least a 4' x 4' section at a time and work on getting the soil in shape for veggie planting (add lots of compost!) Lasagna gardening in the 4' x 4' section after digging out the grass should work really well, keep in mind that many times the soil will be very active with microbes in a lasagna style application the first year or so. Plants might not do so well the first year, due to the activity and heat it can produce. EXPERIMENT! The best way to learn what not to do is by doing it and observing the results, good or bad.
Ericka, thank you for taking the time and trouble to reply! I am so grateful that there are others out there who are so helpful.
I have taken the Roundup back to the store and am going to do as you suggest, and do small sections at a time. I will also once the chickens are up and running as it were, let them free range, (under supervision of course), which will help. I realized after reading your reply that I don't need to get this all done right now, I have time, and I am grateful for your perspective on this. It has made me sit back and relax, truly! :)
Here are my thoughts for what it's worth: I removed the bermuda in my front yard three summers ago using glyphosate (like Roundup). I did not make the decision lightly but I had been told that to completely and positively remove bermuda - glyphosate applications were necessary. I did not know at the time about bioremediation but I did seed heavily that fall with wildflowers and I have to say - I have not had any bermuda return. I don't really have edibles in the front where I used glyphosate except for three huge olive trees - it's mostly native shrubs, cactus and wildflowers. In the back yard I removed a portion of the bermuda using sheet mulching which is like lasagna style gardening. I used the book Gaia's Garden to guide me. I used both cardboard and newspaper as the first layer depending on what I was planning for that part of the yard (cardboard takes a really long time to break down here because we don't get much rain so I used the newspaper in spots I was putting in plants right away and cardboard in the firepit/ sitting area). My biggest problem with the sheet mulch/lasagna gardening is my dogs - I have two large dogs so I can't use stuff like bonemeal, blood meal or kelp meal because it is too attractive to them and they will dig. Even though I tried to keep the dogs out of that area - they broke in and dug up the cardboard and newspaper in many spots. Every area that the dogs got into (and the edges) - the bermuda came back - I kept reapplying the sheet mulch stuff and it is improving the soil but I still have spots where the grass is growing through. I also had to move the firepit/sitting area after six months and although the bermuda under those areas 'looked' dead - it wasn't and came back. So, personally, I think the lasagna method may eventually work but you will have to be very diligent because bermuda is very tenacious and opportunistic. I now have chickens and in the side yard where the coop is, I had stopped watering last year - hoping lack of water would kill the bermuda - it didn't. I am letting the chickens free range at times and they love to eat that bermuda - I have to protect my other plants in the area like squash and the sunflowers and amaranth around their coop because they'll eat those too. I'll keep you posted on the chicken method of removing the bermuda - so far it looks like a success. Maybe do both lasagna style and chickens?...
Replies
I was just wondering how this turned out ?
No, I have not yet got chickens, and I am afraid, and sad to say that I have decided not to, while we live here at least.
I have been concerned this past summer by how intensely hot it has been, and I fear that where we planned to keep the chickens would not provide enough shade. We don't have a lot of choice in this matter because we only gained permission from one neighbour to be within city ordinance, and therefore could not, (legally), keep them elsewhere in our smallish back yard.
I am not the kind of person who could keep chickens and lose a couple each summer due to the heat, even though I would be prepared to do all I could to keep them cool, including misting, and ice in their water etc, etc. I have also been having boundary issues with the neighbour who gave us permission to have the chickens in that her landscapers have been entering our yard to cut our foliage to ensure that it doesn't grow into their yard. To be honest this issue has me a little overwhelmed and I foresee "chicken issues" in our future as well.
I just don't have the energy for it all right now. In regards to our bermuda grass, it is all dead right now due to lack of water, but is of course ready to grow right back when it gets even a drop of water. It is a project I am still working on slowly, digging it out where I can in small patches, and realizing it is all a slow work in progress.
Thanks again for the replies! :)
In regard
Lowered bed in first compost heap.JPG
Second compost heap.JPG
Third and current compost heap.JPG
I am taking Heather Welch's "designing a vegetable garden" series of classes and we talked about this in our last class- (it's a great class if you haven't taken it already!)We spoke about a few different options for removing Bermuda grass. The option I'm thinking of going for my yard is to plant Red Clover- it will start to naturally choke out the bermuda grass and is easier to remove if you choose to use an area for a garden down the road. As an added bonus, you can make Tea from the flowers :) It's an idea if you don't want to use lots of chemicals. Since clover is a "nitrogen fixer" it's good for the soil as well. I'm learning a lot of really cool stuff in these guild classes :)
I'm going to do the clover in my front yard where I'm going to plant my fruit trees, and in the back where I want to put my garden, I am going to use a sod cutter to remove the top layer, then I am going to lasagna garden from there.
I hope that's helpful!
Kristin
I have been considering planting clover in my back yard to choke out the bermuda and to fix nitrogen. Did you plant it in your yard? Where do you get it and when can you plant it?
Thank you for your help,
Duane
I have bought the seeds but have not yet planted it. I was going to plant it in monsoon season but we haven't been having enough rain...so I will most likely plant it in October or November unless we start getting some good monsoons. I bought the seed from seeds of change http://www.seedsofchange.com/ and their customer service was great. I will order from them again and their price of only 7 dollar for one pound was nice as well. I'll keep you updated!
Thanks
Kristin
Bermuda can lay dormant underground for many years, and can be 2-3 feet down. By watering it and getting it to grow it will come up to the surface making it easier to dig out. Deep water a section, wait a day or so, then start digging! Shake out the dirt from the bermuda roots and bag it immediately. This is by no means the easiest way to get rid of the grass, but it was the route we took. We still have bits that pop up around the yard, it is very resilient, it is grass and that is what it is designed to do-cover bare ground.
We did spray a small section in the front because after digging that section 3 times and still getting grass we were looking for another way. It worked, but there are still some sprouts now and again. Bermuda grows from the roots (rhizome) and seed so it will always be around no matter what you do or use. We find that it likes to hang around the edges of concrete or stones, because the roots can be under the slab protected from spray and pulling.
I would start small, clean out at least a 4' x 4' section at a time and work on getting the soil in shape for veggie planting (add lots of compost!) Lasagna gardening in the 4' x 4' section after digging out the grass should work really well, keep in mind that many times the soil will be very active with microbes in a lasagna style application the first year or so. Plants might not do so well the first year, due to the activity and heat it can produce. EXPERIMENT! The best way to learn what not to do is by doing it and observing the results, good or bad.
I have taken the Roundup back to the store and am going to do as you suggest, and do small sections at a time. I will also once the chickens are up and running as it were, let them free range, (under supervision of course), which will help. I realized after reading your reply that I don't need to get this all done right now, I have time, and I am grateful for your perspective on this. It has made me sit back and relax, truly! :)
Thank you my friend!
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